Hmm... none of which are dreadfully suprising. Oh well, I'd have prefered at least one Conehead in the mix...
...Maybe Thrust, Dirge, and Ramjet are off consuming mass quantities instead? <-- really really old joke. xD

Is it just me, or is this slightly slanted toward the Autobots? Up until now its been one Decepticon, one Autobot announced at a time (unless I missed one which is entirely possible), and now two Bots and one Con. At least keep it a little even. It would be funny to have a cut scene of the cone heads in an energon bar with just a pile of empty cubes watching the battle raging outside. Thrust "We gonna get involved, Dirge?" Dirge "Burp...nope."

Well, that's really nothing new. As a rule, Decepticons tend to be brutally outnumbered, in quite a few versions of the story...

...Although isn't this more in the style of Dirge: "DEATH COMES TO THOSE THAT INTERUPT MY DRINKING!" ...and then he explodes for no reason at all.

Well, personally I think Megatron should have the philosophy of "There isn't a problem that can't be solved by throwing an obscene number of decepticons at it." And really, if any second tier characters are ever going to be just chilling out at an energon bar while a war is going on, it would be those three. (Dirge explodes, then comes in from off camera) "Its okay...I had another guy." (Ramjet and Thrust very unenthusiastically) "Yay."

Honestly, though. I'd consider it a completely plausable explanation that Ramjet is off somewhere with his head stuck in something.

...as to who's a second or first tier character. Really now, I've yet to see a version of Skywarp or Thundercracker that weren't pretty generic. Heck, in the old cartoon, Rumble had more characterization then the both of them put together.

Too true. Thundercracker and Skywarp were pretty much the rowdy boys in the background. They were either mocking Starscream or being used as generic henchmen. Ravage and Laserbeak had more effect on moving the stories along than those two. But that is entirely the fault of the writers. The show had without about one of the most talented voice casts ever, so if a character didn't have a shining moment, it wasn't the fault of the actors.

Well, if we're talking shining moments. Skywarp did effect the fandom forever! Lest you forget his hidden power to change into a copy of Cyclonus and cause transfans to bicker about it. : P

...I seem to recall Rumble with a simliar ability, actually.

Well, in the interest of being candid, of all the seekers I've always had a soft spot for Ramjet. Might have something to do with the fact he was the only one I had when I was little, but still. : P

Least you had a seeker when you were a kid. I had Optimus, Ultra Magnus, Kup, and a handful of mini bots and laser beak and squawk box. Might be why I'm so fascinated with the decepticons now.

There are certain advantages to having an older brother who born at just the right time. : P Most of my old stuff was second hand from him.

In any case, I've always found Decipitcons to be the most interesting. Huge fan of the Stunticons, who rarely get the respect they deserve. I'm fond of the Combaticons as well, but that's just because I long for they day, when they do an A-Team homage with those guys! (Come on, writers! It'd work so well!)

The Stunticons have been denied the respect they deserve. Come on Hasbro...lets see them updated in full force!. So Onslaught as Hanibal, Vortex as Murdoc, Swindle as Face, Brawl as B.A. Barracus, and Blastoff as the random girl they help out.

It's weird. I remember when I was about five or so, and seeing Motormaster for the first time. I said to myself, 'ah, just like an evil version of Optimus prime, I can dig it'. Since then, Hasbro has graced us with a dozen or so evil Primes, but seems to have let the original go by the wayside. Boo, very boo.

xD More or less. 'cept I always pictured Blastoff as the van. He Would look good painted up in black deco with a red-white stripe, now, wouldn't he?

Yeah, I could certainly see Blastoff hauling the others around. What I always thought was awesome about Motormaster is that his robot mode incorporated his trailer, as opposed to it disappearing off camera somewhere. But I never understood why, if that was the case, Prime didn't come up to MM's waist as opposed to being just as tall as MM. Motor Master incorporated so much more mass into his robot mode, he should be gargantuan. Twenty five years later, I have still yet been given a reasonable answer. But I still want stunticons, Hasbro!

Who knows? Maybe one of the writers or such will happen by this post, and say:: A Team Combaticons? That's perfect for the Shattered Glass Universe! ... well, I can dream can't I?

As I understand it. Pocket dimensions is the official explanation. Let's face it, there's lots of squicky mass stuff in the old cartoon. IE: Either Soundwave is the world's heaviest Tape deck, or else in robot mode he weights less then five pounds...
...or the detail that Superion should be about a dozen times larger than Menasor. His chest is a concord jet for Primus's sake, compared to a sedan or two, way way way bigger...

...This is going to go into a bit of a tanget here, but the examples above are true, honest to Primus (Star Trek-esque) criticsm. At some point science fiction decided that it must immitate reality, or offer plausable explanations for things. At some point things are just fine if fantasy is let to be fantasy...
...this rant could go on for a while. I'll cut myself off before it gets too wordy. xD

Well when you're dealing with sci-fi science, you have to remember that just because we can't do it now doesn't mean it can't be done. Technically speaking the tale of Icarus is ancient Greek sci-fi which is now reality with hang gliders. The same could be said for mass shifting, in that just because we can't do it now doesn't mean it can't be done sometime in the future. The "laws" of physics are just a theory based on the experiences of one species on one planet in a vast and infinite universe. Things work a certain way on earth so we assume the rules must apply to the rest of reality. Then you have to take everything with a grain of salt. Like how Superman's powers work, how a dragon flies, or how a tape deck transforms into a 30 foot robot. Eventually you just have to shrug and say "Alien from another world, magical creature, and alien robot..." and leave it at that.

I too, could go on and on...and on about this, but the folks here are Unicron.com are cool and I don't want to annoy them.

Ditto. xD
Last thing I'll say on the matter: I once wrote an academic paper on the movie Plan Nine from Outer space, where I discussed, ad nausem, the nature of "realism" in purely fantastic stories. xD

...
....
..... So if the Stunticons fly in robot mode, and fly in car mode, then what's the point of turning into a car in the first place?

Man I'd love to read that paper. Me and my friends were in a physics class and talking about time travel. The teacher asked the question "Would you like to share your discussion with the rest of the class." We did. Covered Back to the Future, Quantum Leap, and the Terminator film series. Took up the whole period before she had to stop us.

The Stunticons transform because they follow the trends of the day. Everyone else transformed, so the felt they should to. Then they saw a bunch of lemmings jumping off a cliff and, well, everyone else was doing it...they...they just aren't that smart.

I've got it around somewhere, I'll see if I can find it.

Well, I always figured it was because they were a day-project, started my Megatron. He does spend the first ten minutes or so of the episode just playing with his remote control'ed cars after all. Then goes, aww, what the heck, I suppose I'll give 'em sparks... road trip, everyone!

...Disclaimer: The term used is cybernetic personalities, as it isn't established what a spark is until the Beast Wars episode of the same name.

PS: Plan Nine from Outer Space is the Star Wars of Horror movies. <-- I can defend that statement.

I'll agree to that. It set standards for horror movies for generations to come.

Well, one of the things that makes Star Wars great is that it's the culmination of the 'Epic Story'. You've got influence from westerns, samurai films, biblical refrences, eastern mysticsm, all with a World War Two backdrop to it.

...Despite it's... ...crumminess? Plan Nine is the exact same concept just with horror movies. You've got the universal horror cycle of the 1930's in the form of Bella Legosi and his Dracula-esque character (sort of, there's a story there). You've got the classic zombie represented by third ghoul, the alien invader genre in the form, oh, well, the alien invaders. As well as the atomic age terror that's exemplafied by movies such as The Day the Earth Stood still.

...one of the reasons that this is hard for a modern audience to pick out is that horror movies arn't any of these things. Rather, a modern horror movie is a guy in a mask who doesn't say anything, who kills skinny teenagers one at a time. That particiuar genre, ie a "Slasher Flim" didn't pick up in popularity until the 1980's, several decades after Plan Nine was made, hence it couldn't have been included into the amagramation plot.

I can see all that. And you're absolutely right about the distinction between a horror movie and a slasher film. While they are wanting to play on the same set of emotions: fear, dread, fascination with the darker aspects of the world, they really have different ways of going about it. Take In the Mouth of Madness vs Friday the 13th. ItMoM is a psychological horror inspired by the works of H.P. Lovecraft and involve the warping of reality and the natural madness that would result. Friday 13th was about a man in a hockey mask killing people out of some misplaced sense of revenge. Sadly, there has yet to be a really effective horror movie amalgamation.

I have a feeling that I'm dreadfully, dreadfully off topic. xD

Well looking at the history of this discussion thread, we're the only two here and they've yet to say anything about it so far. Which is really cool of them.

I concurr. ^_^

I think one of the major dangers we have when it comes to genre amalgamation is that it runs the risk of becoming a spoof. If Star Wars had been done a little differently, then it would have been awful. What Lucas was trying to do was recapture the old adventure serials and update the concept for a newer audience. I'm not sure, but I think Ed Wood's Plan 9 was actually supposed to be a ridiculous movie, but not actually a spoof. Lets face it, Ed Wood was the Orson Wells of bad movies for his day.

We can't have that conversation without first defining what it is to be a truly bad movie? Most Wood movies, depsite being low quality are still enjoyable to sit through, even for the sheer specticle of it all. Whilst on the other hand I can think of a number of movies that simply are so bad that it's bad.

On the other hand, the key to successful genre amagramation is 'themes'. Episode four has a very thematic sort of story telling. We're given little to no exposition for telling the story, as it plays off of the various 'epic story' achetypes in such a strong manner that direct exposition isn't really necesary. One feels thier way through episode four; and it works quite well.

Something like Episode Two on the other hand, just copies the visuals from Episode Fives, and prays the audience isn't paying attention.

Ed Wood is the Orson Welles of bad movies? Does that mean that Shattered Glass Unicron sounds like Mister Wood?

...xD Heh. Had to throw a transformers bit in thier somewhere...

.... somehow I feel a rant about Transformers Two comming on.

Depending on who's writing the story, but yes, I imagine that when Unicron crosses into the Shattered Glass universe, he inexplicably sounds like Ed Wood. Oooo, there you go, in the Shattered Glass universe, Welker voices Optimus, Cullen voices Megatron.

But I agree, some of the best movies don't bother to explain the world they take place in at all. Indiana Jones, Star Wars, you just KNEW what was going on. If you sat and tried to explain Star Wars to someone who'd never seen it, they'd be lost. If you sat them down and showed them the movie, they'd get it completely, because the presentation of the material is just so well done.

And I also agree that there are some movies that just transcend concepts of "bad" and just go straight into cult classics. But then there are those that are just...bad. The problem is that its all subjective. Its like the passage of time. You can sit in a room for thirty minutes with nothing to do. Some people will say it felt like they were only there for fifteen minutes, others will say it felt like an hour. Its all subjective, totally dependent on the observer.

You're forgetting the first rule of literary criticism. Whilst everything is subjective and subject to the whims of the reviewer:

...my opinion is always the correct one. : P

That is sadly very true. I once was in an English Lit class in college and the professor wanted us to write opinion papers on the material we were reading. So we did. She neglected to tell us that it had to be about her opinion of the piece, not our interpretation and responses to the material. That really irked me when she's sitting there telling us our opinions are wrong. No, they're not...they can be misinformed, poorly thought out, but being that they are the voice of our subjective view of the event/material they can't be wrong because they are our opinions, and that is exactly what the question was about...our opinions.

And now I'll get off my soap box. :P You might have guessed the event made a lasting impact on me. I've since learned to pick my battles better.

Well, I meant more that I personally am always correct. 'cause I'm just so perfect. xD

Oh well yeah, me too. :P

Sorry. xD It's in my contract. I've got to say something self elating every twenty minutes or so.

Awesome. Thats a heck of a contract.

Not really. If I fail to live up to my end of the bargin, I have to do battle with the dreaded Lawyer-Spider.

Well, if that ever happens, be wary of the double-talk web and the briefcase of deception. Had to battle one of these for a case I worked years back, but luckily for me I had a dragon-judge with the spear of common sense at his side.

Well, when all else fails. Eye-lasers make everything better.

Completely agree. Nothing says "end of discussion" like a blast from eye lasers. Arguing with the clerk at the store...eye lasers. Boss giving you a hard time...eye lasers. Guy mowing the lawn at your apartment and kicks up a rock that breaks your car window...eye lasers!

A bit of a random thought: If the multiplayer includes the option to freely recolor your characters and select the abilities, then what's the point of having three seperate characters that are just recolors of each other.

Shh...we're not suppose to notice that sort of thing.

At least they had the decency to include a female seeker.

Moment of aboslute honesty: I didn't particularly care for Animated, but if the lasting impact of the series is the inclusion of a Slipstream (or slipstream-like character) to the subsiquent iterations of the franchise, I'll drink a toast to Animated and all it's glory.

Why didn't you care for Animated? I know there are reasons for it, but I'm interested in your opinion.

It seemed to occupy a sort of grey area between the appealing factors of other series. It was too modern to have the nostaligic appeal of the orginal, and it was too goofy to have the serious arc-type story telling of Beast Wars/Machines.

I felt that the third season definately started to take some steps in the right direction, though; and maybe if there was another season it would have lifted my opinion of it even further, who knows?

Disclaimer: Whilst it wasn't my favorite series, it wasn't unwatchably bad like the latter few entries in the Unicron Trilogy... and let's face it Animated had some great, great comedic moments. Starscream death montage anyone?

Oh yes, the montage of death was fantastic, and there was some brilliant voice acting involved. I think Animated was trying to do a balancing act, and did it pretty well, of trying to be respectful to the long time fan base as well as appeal to younger audiences. It felt like a show that, if I had any, I could watch with my kids and not get bored or bogged down in the outright kiddienss of it. It stood head and shoulders over the story telling and animation style of the Unicron Trilogy, and in that regard I think saved the franchise from certain ruin.

Well, that's the thing I suppose. I'm sans children, so to me, my only consideration, is what do I... as a midly obssessive nerdette... prefer to watch in my cartoon archive. The 80's series and Beast Wars just plain win out. ^_^

Oh agreed, G1 and BW are the best, I think because they took the material seriously and established continuity between the two so you felt you were watching essentially the same show. That and I can appreciate them being a different Optimus and Megatron within the same universe, just a later generation given the same names. As opposed to rebooting the story line every...single...time. My hope and dream is for a series that does not involve names Optimus and Megatron and just takes a look at a wider range of Autobots and Decepticons and the universe in general. I know I'm probably hoping for too much, since those names are pretty much money in the bank for Hasbro, but still...a nerd can dream.

I count Beast Wars (Along with Exo-squad and Batman the Animated Series) as the last great hurrahs of the american style of animation, before everything became Anime, in the style of anime, or anime-esque.

At least we went out with a bang, m'right?

I think I'd take that analogy a bit further into the late ninties and early 2000's with shows like Justice League (and by extension Justice League Unlimited) and Batman Beyond. Of course all three are just extensions of the universe set up by Batman the Animated Series and was still oversaw by the Dini/Timm dream team, so that kind of quality work carried over. Its nice that someone else remembers Exo-Squad. It really was an underrated show that explored some interesting thematic elements. I think you're right in that now creators tend to rely too much on cgi or gimmicks to carry their shows and not enough on writing, voice acting, and story telling.

(Beast Wars) Primal is my favorite (psuedo)-incarnation of the character. He was a nice balance between the prime we all know an love, and an unexperienced and untested explorer. You really feel him grow as a character and, pardon my pun, transform throughout the story.

Prime the first is certainly an iconic hero, but that's all he was. He had an odd 'father knows best' vibe too him sometimes. It's really kinda odd, RE: The Master Builders. Oddly enough, Rodmius had more character depth to him then the orgional. Roddy would probably have shined as one of the greats, if he didn't have to climb over Prime's Masterpiece Sleep Mode to get there. If was just added as an additional commander character a las Ultra Magnus, he would've met his full granduer. As a fan it's hard to appricate what came after the bloodbath that was Transfomers the movie.

Animated Prime feels... incomplete. He never really had the oppurtinity to come into his full as a real commander. One more season might have given me satisfaction, in that regard, but we'll never know. *Grumbles something about Predicons and Beast Wars Megs not making a cameo outside of 'Bee in the City'*

Hmm... I just re-read what I wrote. This was all a random tangent wasn't it? Oh well. xD

A lot of the work in the DCAU was really solid. JLU suffered severely from having a half hour timeslot. The indapendent movies they've put out since then are exceptional. I've got nothing bad to say about them. Batman the Animated Series stands out in my mind, 'cause let's face it, it had some real high-octane nitemare fuel in there. ^_^

I remember watching the animated series Joker using smilex on people thinking...yep, they're dead and in a horrible way. Then I found out that they did that because they couldn't show the Joker killing anyone. I was like...but that's worse! But the DCAU has probably some of the most compelling story telling, voice, acting, and characterization ever in "children's" television. These characters became the iconic models that comics are now using. They've pretty well scrapped the old characterizations and everything's pretty much been reset to mesh with DCAU.

I think (and brace yourself for a gear shift) that G1 Prime was supposed to be iconic, like John Wayne. If you've ever seen a John Wayne movie, you know you're not going to get into the depth and motivation of the character. You're going to see an icon doing what an icon does...the exact same thing over and over again. Rodimus was screwed from the beginning. There is no way he would have ever measured up to Optimus and whats funny is after watching season 3, the only one really making the comparisons outside of the first episode is Rodimus. This was a character with serious depth to him. I think at the time however, the court of public opinion condemned him because there was this big call to bring Optimus back in some fashion.

I agree with you that Beast Wars felt like the first original storyline since G1, and there really hasn't been anything like that since. Everything else has been a reimagining of G1, and lasting only like 3 seasons if that...and I'm starting to retread old material...but Beast Wars evolved the characters and the storyline and carried it into Beast Wars Metal then Beast Machines. I would have liked to see that happen with later series, but they're treating these characters like Batman and Superman, where no matter how often you retell the story, its still basically the same thing.

If you haven't seen them yet. DCAU's recent releases: Wonder Woman and Green Lantern: First Flight are simply amazing. Watch GL with the lights off, it's borderline psychadellic. xD

As to Optimus being like John Wayne. I'd say that's dead on. Heck his voice acting in More than Meets the Eye part one sounds very much like the Duke. If you really wanna see Cullen flex is cowboy muscles, though. Youtube the transformation sequence from Saber Rider and the Star Sherriffs. Peter Cullen voicing a giant transforming robot (that ends up wearing a giant robot cowboy hat) named 'Ramrod' might be the single manliest thing ever. xD

I liked Beast Machines, but I liked it for a different reason. It was weird to have a series where Megatron was the good guy. I mean, since 1986 we've been chanting 'til all are one. I mean it's high time someone tried to do something about it! <3

Megatron just wanted to keep his planet together, even if he had to blow it apart to do it. I have seen those two DCAU movies. I also enjoyed Crisis on Two Earths and Superman: Doomsday. They brought a bit more to the table, and at the very least gave us something that wasn't just for kids. At your recommendation I looked up that video.

o_O That was weirdly awesome, or awesomely weird. I have pretty much had to see every single John Wayne movie thanks to my dad, but...that was really cool. Thank you so much.

Saber Rider was dub'ed by the same company that did Voltron, another classic giant robot series that Peter Cullen was a part of.

I was really hoping that the spectacular climax of Beast Machines involved the Grand Mal merging with the planet and giving us a battle against Unicron 2.0...
...le sigh... would have been awesome.

Yeah, there is so much lost potential in every series.

What can I say? I'm an immeasurable tome of knowlage of rare and obscure 80's lore. xD

And you are fantastic for that. :)

I wish they'd hurry up and confirm more characters already. I think I'm getting impatient. xD

There certainly are characters shown on the various videos that haven't been confirmed yet, and there's a much more expanded list on the Transformer-Wiki website... albeit I don't know how reliable that is, as a souce.

I noticed there's a boat load of characters there, but I agree that the info may not be the most reliable. At first the whole thing looked like World of Warcraft for Transformers, but now its got my full attention.

World of Warcraft for transfomers? Hey now, some of us would jump at the oppurtunity to play a transformers MMO. : P

...provided of course the developers did a good job with it.

I think where I was going with that was that everyone...I mean everyone, looked huge and bulky. But I completely agree, if they had a MMO for Transformers and did it well, I'd be all over that. My chief concern for War for Cybertron was that everyone was going to have the same essential body type of wide shoulders, narrow hips, flared out legs. But now that I see there is at least some diversity in the style, I can breath a little easier.

Well, my first thought about the design layout was this:: Hmm... Soundwave aparently shares a body type with Ironhide. Never really pictured that before, but there it is.

...but then I'm superficial like that.

Still. I'm pleased to have seen an Arcee running around in one of the multiplayer trailers. She's a character who clearly doesn't get enough respect. <3

You're right on both counts. Arcee and by extension all the female transformers get no respect whatsoever. They've never even effectively explained why a race of robots have male and female distinctions. We won't even get into the implications of transformer sexuality here though.

Looking back though, it makes sense that Soundwave should have an alternate mode that can actually care something of size. I always figured a good alt mode for Soundwave for the movies would be a hummer and all his troops just transform into humans (ala Alice) with alt modes being the beasts Rumble. That would be something, see a dark blue Hummer roll up and a suburban family of five get out only to transform into two condors, a jaguar, a bat, and a robot with pile drivers for arms.

I enjoyed the IDW version of the character. It is, oddly enough, the most plausable explanation for such a fem-nomina <-- pun. Good read if you haven't picked up a Spotlight or two.

As for Soundwave. I enjoyed him being a lampost. I hadn't remembered that little facet of transformers lore from my younger days, and when I rewatched 'More than meets the eye' a few years back, I was totally awed by the practicality of it. A number of G1 transfomers had abilities aproxmating super powers; whether it be invisibility, force fields, super strength, yadda yadda. I've always taken size changing to be Soundwave's super power. Incredibly useful for a spy.

Alice was... silly... I go into incredible detail for this one, but silly, silly silly. She was only in the movie because Michael Bay felt like having two slices of cheesecake that day.

Not to sound like a broken record on this one, but yeah, I agree, Alice had no point in the movie. That character supports my belief that Michael Bay wrote an outline of action sequences he wanted during the writer's strike and then when the writers came back he handed it to them and said "Alright, make me a movie!"

I remember looking at Soundwave in that scene as a kid and wondering...why? But now I think he wasn't so much a lamp post as he was the cybertronian equivalent to a cell tower monitoring the communications networks. Now I can look at that and say "Alright...that is in keeping with the character." But I do wonder what Megatron's cybertronian alt mode was. I mean what made that computer compare their original modes to earth vehicles and say "A walther p38 fits perfectly." It wasn't even that good of a gun.

Well, in all fairness she was a robot character, and none of the robot characters in Rotf were terribly consequential...

...As for Meg's cybertronic mode? I've figured a futuristicy gun of some sort. Or a cannon, or a tank or plane, or train, or a t-rex, or a dragon, a racecar... *and the list goes on*

Well, he's just flighty. Optimus has been far more consistent as he always is a truck...unless he's a bat, or a gorilla, or a metal gorilla, or a metal gorilla truck plane thing, or a fire truck, or a fire truck and a car carrier put together... *list spirals out of control onto the floor* :)

Just flighty? Is that a decepticonian pun I spy?

Okay Pop Quiz!

1) Which character would you like to see included in War for Cybertron, that in all likely hood won't be?

2) I'm trying to come up with a good handle for a WfC character, any good suggestions? xD

There are four characters that leap to mind as not being in the game. I'll put them in order of unlikelihood: Blitzwing 40% chance he'll show up. Prowl 30% chance. Hound 20% chance. Punch/Counter punch 10% chance. I would love for any of those characters to be in the game.

As far as a good handle...I dunno. Me I'm partial to Sidewinder because it invokes the image of a missile or a deadly snake and (being from south Texas) I like the snake/outlaw theme. But thats me, and you can't be me unless I say so. That being the case...I don't know. Switchblade? Sounds meanacing. Ruckus? That what I call my car because deep down, I think it thinks its a decepticon. I'm always going to vote decepticon on this, but if you want an autobot, Flash-bang or Techno come to mind.

One thing I hope to see in the game...water on cybertron. Massive amounts of water. Something to explain Seaspray's motiff to me.

I doubt the added complexity of a tripple changer will make it into the game. : ( So probably not Blitzwing.

Prowl and Hound are definate maybes. I'm suprised we haven't seen Prowl already. Maybe as DLC later down the line?

Well, AmyBlue doesn't sound very transfomery. xD It's usually what I go by on internet forums. I dunno, I'll have to give it some thought.

I don't think I've ever seen water on any version of Cybertron? ... as for something to explain Seaspray? Well? pre-war transformers clearly had the means (and in some cases) the desire to visit other worlds? Maybe he was stationed somewhere a bit more organic? Maybe he was just a hovering car sorta thing, that just happens to look like somewhat like a hovercraft?

Good theory on Seaspray, but just about every single bio I've read on the character (shockingly few though they may be) talks about how his love of water predates his arrival on earth, so that indicates he was a watercraft long before earth, possibly as part of his original design. Could be he encountered water on another world, possibly one inhabited by Kevin Cosner with gills, but I dunno. I'm thinking he tools around some kind of water system on Cybertron. Water is used in a lot of industrial work, so its possible that they have waterways on Cybertron.

Amy Blue? Any relation to the Doom Generation character? Just curious.

I actually had kind of a windfall today. I was digging through some stuff in a storage shed and found a bunch of transformers that I thought had been lost/stolen two years ago! Can't find the propellers for Incinerator, but hey, I found the rest of him!

Well, his cybertronian marvel comics version is fairly identical to his earth mode, except for having wheels at the bottom? Cannon if you'd like, but I just figure that was lazy artistry.

What's Doom Generation?

I haven't much of a collection myself. The ones I got to play with in my younger days were mostly my brother's. (Can you blame me? The toys with little moving parts are vastly more interesting then the ones with the limited articulation and the oh-so creepy blank stare) I only pick up a piece here there and yonder now, when it's something I think is really really really interesting. ^_^

Doom Generation is one of those overly thought out emo teenage-coming of age movies from the 90's. The main character is named Amy Blue. Your handle sounded familiar to me so I looked it up.

Personally I love the engineering of the transformers, the sheer insane genius it had to take to develop the really good ones. Also on an artistic level they appeal to me, so I have a fairly decent sized collection, although as the collection gets too massive, I'll donate some to a local daycare that doesn't have toys that appeal to boys. They've got barbie doll centers, but nothing really for the boys to play with. Anyway, so yeah, I've loved the series since it first came out waaaay back when.

You'd think that if there was no water on Cybertron, then the other transformers would look at Seaspray and day "Dude, what spray?"

Name's Amy and I have Blue Eyes. Hence the name. It's a funny little coincidence though. I think I totally need to see that movie.

Well, logically speaking the names of various characters have to be new Earth adaptations for our benefit. How else do you explain Jazz? Who's named after a style of music that he predates by a few million years.

I just figured they were the "earth translation" of their cybertronian names. I never honestly, even as a kid, that an alien robot would be named "Bumblebee" millions of years before he ever encountered earth. For all we know, the way they say "Jazz" and "Bumblebee" may be the cybertronian versions of Scott and Kevin. And they probably wonder why we named an entire species of insect "Kevin".

Speaking of names, mine is Michael.

Michael? If you're Michael Bay, I'm going to have to start throwing things. ^_^

...just saying.

Well, the closest thing we ever see to a naming procedure is during the first Episode of Beast Wars and in the animted Episode Autoboot camp. Both instances imply that names are maliable or outright assigned, so it would seem to follow the rational that they'll call themselves whatever, until something more convient comes up...

...In the Beast Wars, most members of the Maximals and Predicons choose a new name to accomidate thier new modes. Some do not. Optimus and Megatron are clearly called as such, and for whatever reason (ie to sell toys. : P ) decide to keep thier old name. Granted in Megatron's chase it's extremely complicated:: As he's named after G1 Megatron, who took his name from the destroyer in the Covenent of Primus, who's in fact the Beast Era Megs that named him after himself... (causaility explodes here)

No, thankfully not Michael Bay. Last name does feature a B, but it not Bay. Besides, I work in law enforcement, not film, so I can't possibly be him.

But that aside, to prevent causality from exploding, lets take a look at time from a non-earth point of view. If Einstein was right and time is part of space (space-time), and space is fluid and flexible, then it would be possible to go back in time and create the very events that would later inspire you. I cite the "I'm my own grandpa" scenario from Futurama. In it, idiot Fry goes back to the 1940's and accidentally causes the death of his equally (if not more) idiotic grandfather before his father is conceived. In consoling his future grand mother, he "gets busy" as it were and ends up conceiving his own father. History will know that his grandma would have been in love with his "grandpa" and assumptions would be made that he was the father of the child, not some halpless drifter who never returned after a one night stand.

From that standpoint, if you just ignore the way you and I experience time and think of it as a ball of "space-time fluid" then its perfectly plausible for G1 Megatron to take his name from his descendant(ish) because that future descendant went back in time and became part of history...which might make Beast era Megatron slightly more badass than G1.

I do confess, Beast Wars Megs is my favorite. He's a nice mix of serious and comedic, and let's face it, hey's way better with long-term goals than any of his contemporaries.

I've been doing some name ponding, here's what's I came up with so far:: Destonia. I keep going back and forth on whether or not I like it.

Maybe Destona. Destonia sounds like a pseudo european country. Destona is short, and slightly more ominous sounding. "Its Destonia...Primus Help us..." Doesn't quite flow as well as "Its Destona...we're slagged!" Either way, it works because to me it implies "destruction" or "destroyer" with a feminine twist at the end with the "a" on it. Implies "This is a girl who will end us." Sorry if I sound jerk-ish, but when I hear "Destonia" I think "Welcome to Destonia" travel brochures.

A bit of a play on words there, as a Destron is the Japanese term for a Decpticon. ^_^ No worries though, I still have about a month to come up with something good.: )

Good because the only thing that came next was "Destroyha!" and that sounded just...too...no.
"Nightstrike"?

I always heard that Toho copywrited that as the name, 'caues they just couldn't get the rights to Destroyer? (Yes, I like Dai-kaiju movies)

Oooh, what's not too bad. ^_^

Its quite possible, Toho has some crazy names. And there is nothing wrong with Dai-kaiju movies. In fact I just recently watched Godzilla Final Wars. Wasn't bad after you get through the first half of the movie, and they used "Destroyah" for their monster. Either way, doesn't quite sit well with a transformers character.

Well you never know? Sometimes Dai-Kaiju make wonderful transformers..
...Trypitocon, anyone? ^_^

I actually saw a fan art that reimagined Trypticon in a Godzilla-esque form. It was quite brilliant and would certainly make more sense then the overweight t-rex body. You look at the old Trypticon and you can't help but think "How does he move?" But I guess they were trying to go with "toy accuracy" and that really doesn't translate well. Then again, its not like any of the old figures were all that big on articulation...or scale. Considering if you wanted to do a Trypticon figure in scale with your regular transformers he'd have to be about six feet tall...which just gets me onto a completely different rant.

My favorite scale kerfuffle is Menasor vs Superion. Given choice of altmodes. Silverbolt alone, should be taller than Decpitcon combiner. A sedan really doesn't stack up against a concord jet. Not by a long shot. By the same token, seekers should be much much larger...

...in any case. I've always figured Trypticon was sort of an homage to the King of the Monsters, hence his unusual body type. Personally, of all the city bots, I've found him to be the most intimidating. Waymoreso than Scropinok or Overlord. Granted that might have something to do, with not having seen Headmasters until much later in my fangirl career? In anycase, the War for Cybertron trailer showcases a cybertron-mode Trypticon. Whilst I have no illusions about this being a playable character, I do hope that a toy isn't outside the realm of possibility.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l778LSfPKww&feature=related

Shiney...

That was one of the goofiest things I have ever seen. It was fantastic.

But yeah, my aggravations of scale issues know no bounds. Normally I can find ways around them, but sometimes it's just not possible. One thing I really liked Animated for was that they generally respected the scale of the characters. I remember distinctly one psnning shot of Blitzwing menacing Bumblebee and being much larger than BB in the shot. But I tell you what, if they released a WFC Trypticon as a Supreme figure, I would shell out the cash for that bad boy. And I have to go with you on Trypticon being the most intimidating. I do remember when the season 4 head master episodes came out and Trypticon was way scarier than Scorponok in my mind. I think, looking back, it was because of his base animal intellect. Overlord, Scorponock, those guys had a human intelligence, so you felt there was some goal driving that engine of destruction. Trypicon was just an engine of destruction. He had no plan, no overarching goals, he was built for one job, destroy everything. And he was good at his job (at least I believe so as a kid). Maybe it just boils down to the fact that I knew he wasn't human where as everyone else either looked human or had a human driver.

I think as a whole, G1 utilzed the 'big dang bots' phenomena too often. I mean, when you're watching headmasters, practically every character that doesn't have a alien for a brain is a giant of some kind. You've got almost a dozen Gehstalts, and a brace of city bots for each side, just seems to be a bit of overkill.

Well, that could be seen as a take on military escalation, where in each side tries to get bigger and better weapons the then other. Or it could be that Hasbro was just trying to keep the line going by cranking out new gimmicks and capitalizing on ideas that worked in the past. I'll admit, me and every boy in my class lost it when Devastator came out. "Six robots combine into one! And they transform into vehicles!" We were kids...it was awesome. So gestalts kept their vibe going by utilizing new character concepts (and they were easy army builders).

I guess I should be thankful that there's no supreme class pretender floating around, that might have been more sillyness than I could bear. xD

Hasbro marketed well with the first Devastator and poorly with the most recent one. Simply put, he was the most expensive toy in the line at the time, much like the new one is. The old Devastator is usually shown only being defeated with great effort (and teamwork) from a combonation <-- pun of autobots; whereas the newest Devastator is taken apart by the Jar Jar twins.

No one wants to buy the expensive toy if the expensive toy is a wimp. : P

Just a musing.

Well, another point in which Hasbro dropped the ball with the gigantic Devastator is that with G1 Devastator, he had limited articulation, but all of his components had robot modes. With this one, he has limited articulation (its squat or naught) and none of his components have robot modes. I understand that "It would have cost more to...blah blah blah..." But wouldn't that cost have been worth it for either a)better articulation or b) robot modes for the components. One of the major appeals of the Legends class Devastator is that all of his components have robot modes. Again, limited articulation all the way across the board (which what do you expect from Legends) but at least you've got an army of decepticons at your beck and call rather than a construction crew that turn into one big robot with a vacuum cleaner/chipper shredder/garbage disposal mouth who does...really...nothing. At the very least Hasbro should produce an independent figure for Scrapper. Looking at his robot mode for legends, he'd make a really fantastic looking Voyager or at the very very least deluxe figure.

But yeah, if you set the two "characters" of Devastator side by side, g1 was a brutal, if unintelligent, warrior, where as movie was...a big angry dog.

Devastator and Bruticus get all the love, but Mensor was the mightiest...
...and at the end of the day that's all that matters.

...in terms of movie combiners I'm still waiting for my third Motorcyle girl. I know it's going to be a disapointment, but I still want it anyway, Primus-dern it. xD

Agreed on both points. The Stunticons have really gotten the shaft over the years. I want actual updates of the combiners, but every outlet finds me at a dead end. Makes me almost want to break down.

And I too eagerly await the third cycle bot, just to see the combined mode.

Haha, Punny!

Well, the persistant rumour I keep hearing is that she'll be a silver repaint of Chromia. Why silver, I do not know, but that also means that whatever combine mode is possible is possible now, it just has to be figured out.

I read that too, that she is a repaint, but I can't help but wonder if there might be a bit of retooling involved in making the combined form work. In theory you could get a second Chromia figure to see how it all fits together, but if there is minor retooling it could be a wasted effort. Or, Primus willing, the combined mode will look really good with the blue, reddish pink, and silvery colors.

I tend to like combined modes, so I'm really hopeful for this one. Despite being rather non-plussed by the RotF asthetic in general, I picked up both of the biker girls that have been released thusfar.

Well, I was somewhat disappointed with Chromia, I think there may have been construct quality issues going on there. Arcee, while a very original design, didn't really "wow" me either, but she was better than Chromia. I'm hoping Elita 1 will offer the big pay off on this one.

There isn't a whole lot in the ROTF line I really did like...
...that being said, I'm bouncing up and down in anticipation for the figures based off the War for Cybertron game...
...I can only hope that they see fit to grace us with a WfC Slipstream. ^_^

Looking at just the previews for that game, I want figures for the whole cast. I mean I know its probably a pipe dream to hope for an Omega Supreme or Trypticon, but a nerd can dare to dream.

I've enjoyed some of the ROTF line. Ironically the ones I like the most have nothing to do with the core cast from the movie. Its all the extra characters like Brawn, Deadend (scout class) and Breakdown. I am both intrigued and apprehensive though to imagine what Michael Bay will do if he gets his hands on Rodimus, Ultra Magnus, or Springer.

I think I'm begining to offically disavow the Michael Bay movies. They're not real, they weren't made, didn't happen, didn't exist. ^_^

James Cameron, Peter Jackson, Ridley Scott...these are the names of folks who should have made these movies to give them a sense of legitimacy. Instead we got his formula "Explosions + models in tight skimpy clothing + more explosions - story = a movie"

I say models because "hot babes" is demeaning and "beautiful women" doesn't really describe them. They're...attractive, but they're shallow. A beautiful woman is someone with depth and personality, someone you can talk to for hours without having to think about what you want to say because the words just come out. I firmly believe that it would be more productive to talk to an empty chair than it would be to Megan Fox or Rose whats-er-name.

It's all eyecandy in one form or anther, meant to distract the audience from a sheer lack of substence. : /

Exactly, and that's exactly what it shouldn't be. The movies would be better received if there was some effort put into the story and characterization. People will respect your characters if you treat your characters, all of them, with a certain level of basic respect. But it becomes overly apparent as each of these movies goes that Michael Bay has no respect for the franchise, the fans, or women. One character was the "typical sexy girl" who had little to no impact on the story, the other was a villainous robot/"typical sexy girl" who had little to no impact on the story, and now he's cast another "typical sexy girl" with little to no acting experience outside of a strip tease in a British commercial.

A bit of a random tangent! I was reading through some bios of various characters, and I found something, somewhere that claimed there were oceans on Cybertron...
...I can't remember who's bio it was, but Seaspray does in fact make sense. ^_^

YAY FOR A SENSE OF CONTINUITY! Did some digging today and found a bunch of my old vehicons from Beast Machines. I was really disappointed with the Megatron figure released for that line.

I don't have anything from that line, I can't say I'm terribly impressed though. I do like the universe and classics lines a whole whole lot, but then I'm nostalgic like that. ^_^

Well, the BM line was out when there really wasn't a lot going on for the nostalgic minded. It was the coupe de gras for the Beast Wars era, things were winding down, and I think they were trying to find a way back to the roots of it all by taking them back to Cybertron. Ironically the first run of the figures looked absolutely nothing like the characters in the cartoon. They got more show accurate with the vehicons later in the line, but the maximals were notoriously inaccurate. My guess is that this happened because they violated a very important rule in Transformers: Toys first, then cartoon model. Or at the very least: Plan for the toy when you are designing the computer model. I think the animators got so worked up about pushing the design and technology to the furthest that they never stopped to consider these little rules. That or the toy designers didn't think anyone would notice...but I'm rambling. I just really dug the look and general tone of the show and the figures, they felt grittier, more adult themed, like they acknowledged the old school fans we're growing up. I think thats why I gravitated towards the vehicons, they looked more lethal then the decepticons of old.

Tis a shame, that Mainframe didn't get a chance to make thier next follow up series? Instead we got Robots in Disguise, which, really was just as good, eh? <-- irony. xD

Eh heh, yeah...well. I'll say this, RID has some good figures, even if half of them were rehashed from past lines (because you know Transformers has never done anything like that before or since). That optimus prime was nice looking though...until you realized that he apparently needed some evening wear ("super" optimus) and heavy lifting gear (Omega prime).

Well, it's not like it's the first time for the either. There was Godbomber... or Apexis or whatever he's called in the States? Although just for the sake of being nitpicky, Godbomber was the upgrade de jour for Ginrai, who was a human who was driving the robot body meant for Convoy? (Which eventually became sentient in it's own right, and was killed and rebuilt as a lion?)

...
...
....You know. Typing it all out. I think the words lost in translation come to mind?

Things that make you stop and say "Wait...what?" This is part of why I try to not pay that much attention to a lot of the Japanese continuity, it gets a little weird. I mean, not too terribly weird, but weirder than it needs to be.

In other news, we're up to 109 in comments on this board.

Longest Board Ever?

Still! Less than two weeks before War for Cybertron comes out, I'm totally excitied, I can't wait! <3

Maybe "longest discussion board ever generated by only two people who weren't dating" which is admittedly a long title for a category, but what can you do?

Less than two weeks and counting :D

Well, let's face it. I'm an interesting person with many unusual insights into this particular fandom, as well as a bredth of knowlage that spans nearly all of it's various iterations over the decades...

...plus I'm a fem-bot. xD ...and fem-bots in the fandom are about as common as, well... fembots in the various series'es? xD I'm not nearly as interesting though. I'm a bit more out-there than Arcee, but more demure than Thunderblast... I'm a little taller then The Atom, but smaller than Apache Chief... <-- stole that line from a song. xD

Nice :D Me, I'm a Decepticon, who understands the futility and banality of the war. I'm too unruly to fall into rank, so neither side wants me. Those who employ me often annoy me, though they should enjoy me (paraphrased from a song).

I've actually been a fan from day 1 of transformers. I'm one of those "I remember racing home from school, yada yada yada" guys, who fell in love with the design and engineering aspects of the figures rather than the core story line. I've focused mainly on the American lines because, truth be told, it was available to me in my po-dunk little town. I offer insight on the various American lines, but I don't think I'm a well of the knowledge.

Well, I have very all over the board tastes. Not only am I an adament transfan, but I can also quote whole episodes of Jem and the Holograms from memory. xD ...

...well, okay, maybe not quite to that extreme, but still.

If you've never gotten into the Japanese series, let this rattle around your brain:: Emperor of Destruction Deathsaurus reignited the great war, to fight for the honor of the wives of the Decepitcons who had died. That's extremely epic. xD

Well that's what the autobots get for taking trash about a Decepticon's dead wife. You know, for a group that likes to believe that "freedom is the right of all sentient beings..." they sure are quick to put down the Decepticons' freedom. But I guess that is what comes after those three dots. "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings...except Decepticons."

Yeah, I was a child of the eighties, and while I can't quote say Jem and the Holograms, I know it well enough to make vague references (Like comparing Lady Gaga to Jem and the Holograms if they'd been created by Quinten Tarantio).

All Lady Gaga is, is Madonna for people too young to remember that Madonna had a singing career.

As for Decpitconian freedom... let's put this in two words: Pattern recognition.

Deathsaurus is a neat character, even if he was a member of the questionably named 'breastforce' unit. There was a bot-con exclusive of him, that's a blue redeco of RID Galvatron (with a different head of course) that I totally want to get my hands on. I always have been partial to blue, oddly enough. : P

Blue is a lovely color. :)

Now I'm not saying that Decepticons should be allowed unadulterated freedom. I'm just saying that the Autobots, like most who claim to be on the side of freedom, there is a distinct double standard. The way I always saw it was that the Autobot/Decepticon war came down to points of view. Now, if we're looking at G1 history, then the Transformers went to war with their creators, the Quintessons. Lets face it, the Decepticons had to do the majority of the fighting in this war. They were on the front lines, getting the grit and gravel and brunt of the fight. The Autobots, they probably managed everything from behind the scenes. Anyway, once the Quintessons left, there needed to be a new regime. The Decepticons felt they should be in charge and the Autobots should serve them. Not that off target in logic really. The cons had won the war for them, and the bots were built to serve anyway. The bots weren't too keen on being slaves to new masters and decided the cons were just too dangerous to be left roving, so the war began.

That's all well and good, but consider the other origins. The Primus origin, basically has the Decepitcons being something akin to the spawn of the devil. Presumably both Megatrons took thier name from the covenent of Primus, which is the relative equivalent to naming oneself after the anti-christ...

...now autobot society is basically theocratic, given that little detail, is it any suprise that decepticons are treated with a heavy hand?

Again, going off the G1 cartoon origin, which I consider to be canon. I look at the Transformers Mulitverse and think of G1 as Universe Prime from which all others spawned off from when you consider the theoretical physics of multidimensionalism. Something happened at the dawn of that universe that shattered it and fragments grew into their own distinct universes. In one the Primus Origin is absolute truth. In another, Quintessons are the birthing point, in another...well, you get the idea. I will always side with the G1 cartoon origin not only because I grew up with that and to me it always came first, but because when you put it into context, it makes the most sense. At least within the confines of the "blockier" robot modes (as opposed to Bay's Bionicle on steroids look). Bay's transformers I like because they look like they could have evolved into that form, like they are a silicate based life form that wandered through the evolutionary process until reaching that point.

I do think I just rambled on. Apologizes.

Bah. The best origin story ever is the one that appeared (first) in the Marvel Comic. The transformers evolved from naturally occuring gears and pullys on planet Cybertron.

...Seriously.

I've heard of the theory of intelligent design in nature, but intelligent assembly is a new one on me. I'll have to look more into this...

http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Atechnogenesis

Here you be. ^_^

Thanks. The theory made even less sense than I thought it would o.O

Well, what makes sense in the context of transformers fiction? How is one rediculous explaination more palatable than another? ^_^

Sometimes you just have to see the silly and go with it. ^_^

True. But I can't quite riddle out why everyone wants to pull away from the Quintesson origin. It makes more sense that Cybertron was a factory planet and the machines just got away from them.

...because along with that origin comes the Primacron-Unicron Origin... and really, no one wants to see that. xD

Well...yeah, you got a point.

It's been known to happen.

It's sorta like what I was talking about, about Plan 9 way back when. We're dealing with a ficticious, patently illogical story. It simply doesn't follow that there's a most logical reason why alien robots come to Earth to sell toys. Just gotta pick your silly and go with it. <3

Nothing like the ability to reject one reality in favor of another. Maybe its me, but I still find G1's explanation the most plausable. They crashed here and can't get back to their home planet. However, even then I find the flaws because every season we get an influx of new transformers who were, by all accounts, not on board the crashed vessel in the previous season.

Well here's the problem I have with the G1 cartoon origin. It all comes down to this question:

Are the Decepticons (or Autobots for that matter) a race, or a political affiliation?

In the case of the former, with origins like the G1 cartoon, or them being the 'descendents' of the Leige/io Maximo, then they're inherently and decidedly evil. It sort of rules out of the possilbity of true free will on the matter, and for some reason I find that less, than...
...well, I likes my personal cannon on the matter better.

Random thought:: I need to kit-bash a WfC Bumblebee into a Glyph. : )

Oh I forsee a lot of kit-bashing of those figures.

The way I saw/see the G1 Quintesson origin is that you take the Transformers as a species with Autobots and Decepticons being political factions. Take Skyfire for instance, he chose to be either an Autobot or a Decepticon. Also look at characters like Warpath, who is quite clearly a combat styled character-which would be in keeping with the "military hardware" line that the Quints were putting out, yet he is aligned to the Autobots.

Later in the series, Rodimus Prime basically offers Blitzwing a spot with the Autobots, but Blitzwing turns him down, and is subsequently never seen again. Again, that indicates that the characters can make an active choice as to their side, and the only separation is what they were originally designed for, becoming the robot equivalent to racial division like african and caucasian.

In the case of Blitzwing, he just suffered from new toy syndrome. IE: A character with a new toy is seen more than one without one. Octane's role in Starscream's ghost was orginially written for blitzy, but Octane was new, and Blitz, not so much...

Traded in for the newer model. So sad. Yet Blitzwing was always way more interesting than Octane.

Bit of a random::

I've been rewatching Beast Machines in preparation of War for Cybertron. Let's face it, it's only series that makes really extensive use of Cybertron as a locale. It's much better than I remembered it to be. ^_^

I keep telling people that its a far better show than folks give it credit for. The animation was rock solid, the voice acting was fantastic, and the story lines were very adult for a kids show.

Alas, though, for I fear it was the last great hurrah of Optimus Primal, who's ridden into the sunset, never to be seen again. <-- le melodrama.

So true. Play the thematic music, have the scene go all glowy...And, as I recall, Cheetor was to pick up the reigns of leadership. And I will say one definite thing about Beast Machines, there was character development. My friends really harp on me about this because this is one of my soap boxes, but when the characters are either in exactly the same place emotionally and intellectually at the end as they were in the beginning, then I don't feel a proper story has been told. However, if the characters have this massive jump in personality between the first and third act, then again, the story hasn't been properly paced. Beast Machines managed to have character growth that made sense.

Sometimes. The different between character growth and de-railment is if you like where a character ends up.

In my mind, the only two characters that really felt like the jumped the ship from thier Beast Wars personalities were Rattrap and Megatron. I didn't mind the Megatron we got, but he certainly wasn't the same fellow as the Beast Era Megs. If they were going to do such a drastic revisioning of the character, I would've prefered that it have been a new character all together.

Actually I could forgive all the character differentials in that series because they had pushed these characters dramatically. Megatron had achieved his goal, and that was the end result. One thing I would have liked out of G1 was to see Rodimus Prime come to his full potential, but everyone was too busy crying for Optimus to really give Rodimus a chance.

What gets me about Megatron is his goal is totally and completely different than it was in Beast Wars. He went from wanted to liberate the Predicons from Maximal tyranny, to ruling over a dead world.

Wouldn't it make more sense for G1 Galvatron to do that gig? After all I do believe he did object (greatly) to the notion of the decpticons becoming binary bonded. To the best of my knowlage, mechanized supriority is never a motivation of BW Megs during the run of the Beast Wars.

Well, when you fall through a hole in time and space, your ideals and goals can get a little re-arranged or distorted. Yeah, Galvatron was disgusted by the thought of biological life running around inside a transformer body.

My theory is that BW Megatron discovered something about his techno-organic body that horrified him and made him want to reattain a completely mechanized form. He may have felt corrupted by biology, the warp may have turned him into a xenophobe, or maybe years of dealing with maximals made him hate the very thing he was. Or, it could be that when he arrived, he found resistance from the remaining Predacons and decided the only way to win was complete and total domination.

However, going back to Megatron the Dark Savior, it could be that since he arrived apparently years before the maximals, he discovered a horrible reality about a techno-organic body. It ages. It can get sick. It can wither and die, and that notion very well could have horrified him, that his own body would be the instrument of his demise. That said, he could have decided the best thing for all of Cybertron was to wipe out all organics.

I've always rather chalked it up to Megs the first's influence. I have a similar explaination for Prime's change into a religious Guru of sorts.

I considered the timeframe arguement myself, as he's clearly in control when the Maximals return, but the problem with that is Nightscream, it clearly hasn't been a massively extended bit of time between the start of the story and Meg's takeover...

...and... ZOMG ZOMG ZOMG ZOMG two more days 'til War For Cybertron is released, I'm totally excited. I'm going over first thing after work to pick up a copy.

PS: A bit of data for our ongoing analsysis of the Decepticon cause. According to the 'Zone' comic, Decep-civilians do, in fact, exist.

Well it make sense that civilian decepticons and autobots would be floating around. They don't all have to be in the middle of the war effort. You have to figure that the planet still has to keep on running which means Autobot accountants, Decepticon waste technicians (garbage men) maintenance worker, and all the other little jobs that need getting done.

I gots my copy of the War for Cybertron! Woo! It's loads of fun, two thumbs up. <3

I'm glad you're having fun with it. Once I get a functioning game system, that will be the first game I snatch up. Sadly, I have neither time nor money to get into it just yet.

I've got the PC version. Going by the handle Destrona.
I'll try and avoid having any spoilers in my commentary...

...although it was really weird, when Bumblebee shot JR, in Dallas...

...but I'll have to say that it's a really strong game. Easily. Easily, the best Transformers game in existance. Granted that's not saying a whole lot, but still. The hallmark of the entire game is the dialouge. They did a brilliant job of capturing the esscence of each character. There's even a few rollingly laughingly splendiferious moments. May I recomend the Decepticon jet mission, in this regard?

I have a few critques too, but I'm a tad cautious in that regard, I wouldn't want to say anything that might disuade you from buying the game. xD

I doubt there is much you could say that would dissuade me from picking up this game. What kind of computer do you have? My PC may be able to play this bad boy. If so, then my purchase of it will happen right soon.

Well, the only part that feels kinda, well, underdeveloped is the build a bot system. Basically you get to choose a character and choose two colors, but the two colors only cover about 80 percent of the character, not to mention there isn't a full color wheel for either faction. Simply put, the decepitcons cannot make someone who looks like Starscream on multiplayer, because there is no red on the Decepticon color pallet.

Beyond that, I sorta wish there was a way to communicate in game, at least for the PC version. It would certainly add a bit.

As to my computer it's a Pavillion Elite. I just got it last year, and it's reasonably new fangled. ^_^

I've got myself a Pavillion Slimline, but it might be getting close to time to upgrade.

I got my computer from Fry's electronics. It only ran me about 800 bucks, and is suitably awesome. ^_^

Having played more of WfC, I continue to be amazed. It's really really good. When it comes to multiplayer, I want to like the jet classes, but I seems to die way to easy when I try one. The scouts seem to suit my sensablities quite well, though. : )